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Two days after Joe Biden was named the winner of the 2020 presidential election, Donald Trump left little doubt that he would not accept the result. A senior Republican official assured The Washington Post, however, that the defeated incumbent president’s elaborate tantrum wouldn’t amount to much.
“What is the downside for humoring him for this little bit of time?” the official reportedly told the Post, adding, “It’s not like he’s plotting how to prevent Joe Biden from taking power on Jan. 20.”
Trump was, however, plotting to prevent Biden from taking power on Jan. 20. In fact, a week after the Post published the infamous “humoring” quote, the scope of Trump’s efforts started to come into view.
In Michigan, two Republicans on Wayne County’s elections board initially refused to certify local election results. As The New York Times noted at the time, this was, “in essence, an effort to disenfranchise large numbers of Americans.” Soon after, NBC News reported that the local GOP officials received a personal call from the then-president, and it was at that point that they announced they wanted to “rescind” their votes certifying the election results.
The vote tallies from Wayne County were certified anyway, though the fact that Trump made the effort was one of the earliest pieces of powerful evidence: The then-president was taking deliberate steps to try to overturn his defeat and claim illegitimate power.
But what was it, exactly, that Trump told the Republican officials on the elections board in Michigan? Three years later, the answer appears to be coming into focus. The Detroit News reported Thursday night on newly revealed recordings reportedly reviewed by the newspaper:
On a Nov. 17, 2020, phone call, which also involved Republican National Committee Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel, Trump told Monica Palmer and William Hartmann, the two GOP Wayne County canvassers, they’d look “terrible” if they signed the documents after they first voted in opposition and then later in the same meeting voted to approve certification of the county’s election results, according to the recordings.
The recordings were made by someone present for the conversation, according to The Detroit News, which said it listened to the audio through an intermediary who was not present for the call.
Neither MSNBC nor NBC News has heard or verified the recordings. Spokespeople for Trump and the RNC didn’t dispute the recordings, NBC News reported, and The Detroit News said a Palmer spokesperson didn’t dispute them either. (Hartmann died in 2021.)
“We’ve got to fight for our country,” Trump reportedly said on the recordings, made by a person who was present for the call with the Wayne County officials. “We can’t let these people take our country away from us.”
In case this isn’t obvious, the then-president apparently wasn’t pointing to evidence of election irregularities or trying to convince local officials to pursue a recount. It appears he simply wanted local election officials to give him a hand by rejecting votes he didn’t like as part of a scheme to subvert American democracy.
According to The Detroit News account, McDaniel — the RNC chair and a Michigan native — said at another point in the call, “If you can go home tonight, do not sign it. ... We will get you attorneys.” At that point, Trump reportedly added, “We’ll take care of that.”
Palmer and Hartmann followed the directions and tried to rescind their votes in favor of certification. While those efforts failed, the fact that the then-president applied this pressure in the first place appears to be a rather brazen example of election interference — from a Republican who’s already under indictment for election interference in a different state.
If you’re thinking that The Detroit News’ report will be of interest to special counsel Jack Smith’s team and the Michigan attorney general’s office, you’re not alone.
For his part, a spokesperson for the defeated former president told Politico in reference to the new revelations: "All of President Trump’s actions were taken in furtherance of his duty as President of the United States to faithfully take care of the laws and ensure election integrity, including investigating the rigged and stolen 2020 Presidential Election."
The 2020 election was neither rigged nor stolen. For Team Trump, the "Big Lie" hasn't gone away.